Posts by Sea Breeze

14

Does anyone else get “triggered” when somebody uses the word “triggered”?

by slimboyfat in

what’s the world coming to?

(i guess this makes me officially an older while male now ).

Sea Breeze

What triggers me is when someone abuses the term: "At the end of the day..."

4

There is no virus

by Ace1971 in

https://www.bitchute.com/video/g9oyegpar91l/.

I got the J & J jab about 9 months ago. Last week I came down with a pretty nasty case of Covid. 104 degree fever , body aches etc. No respitory issues to speak of. I got the antibody treatment within 3 days of symptoms and started to improve immediately.

I don't know what to think of the "vaccines".

18

Joel Osteen

by jhine in

i am reading a lot on quora digest about this chap joel osteen.

i and other brits have said that he is hardly known in the uk .

it has been asserted that he is filling stadiums over here.

Sea Breeze

I used to secretly listen to his dad occasionally when I was a JW kid growing up in Houston. I liked his Dad.

Joel is great for motivation. If you are doing sales grind all day, and if you are a believer, Joel is gold. But, you won't get much theology. He draws pretty sharp criticism from most conservative churches.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

Sea Breeze

Fortunately, the apostles made it easy for future generations of Christians to determine error:

Galatians 1:8-9
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Anyone who claims to have new light or any other belief that the apostles didn't clearly teach is cursed.

Pretty simple. I like simple things.

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Sea Breeze

Myelaine,

Most people are aware of Messianic Jews. If you are a Christian, you could go to one of their services and feel right at home. Jews around the world are accepting Christ in surprising umbers. Muslims are as well btw.

However, there is another group of Jews who accept Christ as Messiah who advocate a number of errors. This second group is called the Hebrew Roots movement. They are not monolithic but accept or reject varying aspects of orthodoxy.

The biggest difference between Messianic Jews and the Hebrew Root advocates / movement. is their understanding on how the Law relates to Gentiles, but also how it relates to believers in general. This movement predates Christianity as Dr. Johnson explains below in this brief & candid discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85sisFAQbmQ&ab_channel=ProphecyWatchers

DJW,

Just popping in briefly.... will read your posts in greater detail later this week.

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Sea Breeze

Hand waving wont work here Fisherman. You are not at the Kingdom Hall. Provide scriptures supporting your position on death please.

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Sea Breeze

Since I am now an atheist I really need to spend drastically less time on the subject of theology, primarily confining it only to the purpose of convincing people to stop believing in Christianity.

DJW -

Maybe, just wear a placard that says Stop Believing in Christianity instead of trying to formulate arguments. Like I said, I have proven that the ideas you were indoctrinated with about the nature of man and death are biblically false... The entire WT logic stands on these two pillars. Ironically, so does atheism.

die and resurrect himself after three days....and then did it.
Then he wasn’t dead.

Fisherman, you have been indoctrinated the same as DJW, and the rest of us were. Your concept of die or death is a LIE. Did you not read my extensive post a few posts back regarding the biblical definition of death?

If you did, you would see no contradiction at all with Jesus claiming that he would die and resurrect himself.

Here's the diagram from page 2:

Reread my post at the top of this page and look at this diagram. Jesus could not have been human unless, like us, he had these three parts. But, Jesus was human because he had all three of these parts just as we do. The bible is clear that this is how we are designed.

Furthermore, since "God is a Spirit", he provided the spirit portion of the man Jesus with his own essence - Spirit. This was a one-time thing.... hence the term only-begotten. Get it now?

The Spirit of Jesus was out of the Father... similar to how my sons are literally out of me.

God's indivisible Spirit was veiled in human flesh. That's why the book of Revelation is called "The Unveiling". Jesus is fully revealed there in all his majesty as both God and Man.

I am not saying you must accept biblical theology any more than you must accept the idea that Jesus died for you personally and not Adam.

All, I'm saying is that the bible is internally consistent - if you use biblical definitions and not try to superimpose non-biblical definitions on words.

I have provided many scriptural proofs on this thread and they are consistent. If anyone wants to keep their WT ideas on Man and Death, they should try to defend their ideas biblically.

Fisherman and DJW,

Why don't you guys try to mount a defense of the WT's definition of Man & Death?

Surely, you see by now how critical this is to supporting both Watchtowerism and Atheism. Both will live or die on these two definitions.

What say either of you on this?

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Sea Breeze

Earnest:

There was a lot of uncertainty about who Jesus was in the first century,

Of course there was.... UNTIL he stated on several occasions that he would die and resurrect himself after three days....and then did it.

Either he is a liar, or he is God. No in between here. We all have to choose a side at some point.

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Sea Breeze

DJW,

Can you see how dead souls are really persons with the information I presented in my last post?

You are trying to do exactly what the WT did - superimpose a materialistic naturalism definition that the bible writers never intended.

If you accept the biblical definition of man being a soul, body and spirit; then you can never again pretend that the bible is confusing or contradictory by citing examples of Jesus saying or acting inferior to God, which he clearly was in his flesh, but not in his spirit. "God is a Spirit".

But this is just one of your problems preventing understanding. Not only do you still carry a definition regarding man that the bible writers were unaware of (materialistic naturalism); you also carry a working definition of "death" that is just as foreign to the bible writers as the WT's view on the make-up of man just being physical.

As the book of Ezekiel says, 'the soul that is sinning, it itself will die'.

Absolutely, and dead souls are talking, complaining, remembering and are being comforted in heaven at Rev. 6:9. Again, you are superimposing a materialistic definition on the word "death".

Here's the biblical definition of life and death: When your body expires and is separated from your soul and spirit. At that time, you are dead. When all three are united in your breathing body... you are alive.

But, this is NOT the definition a JW thinks of after being indoctrinated by the WT. So, what exactly is death, how does it occur and what happens to the soul when the body ceases to have life?

One of the clearest examples is in Genesis 35: 18 where the death of Rachael is recorded when she gave birth to Benjamin: “And it came to pass, as her soul was departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin”.

Clearly, when Rachael’s soul departed, she was dead. When her soul was still joined to her body and spirit, she was alive. We already talked about how dead souls who had been martyred during the Great Tribulation were fully conscious in Revelation 6:9 and were being comforted under the altar of God in heaven. So, death does not mean annihilation and unconsciousness. The biblical definition of death is separation of the soul from the body. When your spirit, soul and body are united, you are alive. When they are separated at the demise of the body, you are dead.

Jesus makes this clear in Luke 12: 4 : “Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yes, Fear him”.

Did you catch how a person can still be punished after their body is killed? Jesus really wants people to be aware of how they are made. He should know.... he made them.

So, if you simply change your naturalistic definition of man and death, you will eliminate much conflict in your bible reading.

But, since you have already claimed the title of atheist, I see little chance of you changing your WT indoctrination since the world views in these areas are identical.

To give up your faulty biblical exegesis, would require you to at least temporarily suspend your commitment to your new religion: naturalistic materialism.

Just know that the biblical contradictions you claim are due to your superimposition of different definitions that the writers never intended and not due to an internal contradiction of scripture.

103

Jesus is Michael the Archangel

by Fisherman in

only jesus has the power and authority to defeat satan and kick him out of heaven:.

“now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our god and the authority of his christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our god.”.

Sea Breeze

DJW,

Once again, you have failed to jettisone another WT assumption in your rush to adopt atheism : Annihilation

The bible assumes that the reader understands that we are a tri-partite being and that death means separation and not non-existence. WT doctrines are designed to have over-lapping assumptions.

A former JW bible teacher wrote the following:

The secular world that we behold today embraces a philosophy called Natural Materialism.

Materialism - Materialism is a form of philosophical monism that holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

According to philosophical materialism, mind and consciousness are by-products of material processes, without which they cannot exist.

Naturalism - In philosophy, naturalism is the idea or belief that only natural laws and forces operate in the universe. Adherents of naturalism assert that natural laws are the only rules that govern the structure and behavior of the natural world, and that the changing universe is at every stage a product of these laws.

"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism.

It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. – Richard Lewontin Harvard Evolutionary Biologist

As you can see materialism is a world-view that is adopted as an assumption and has nothing to do with evidence. It is a highly protected religion that requires immense faith in order to ignore substantial circumstantial evidence surrounding the Resurrection of Christ, Near Death Experiences, and Terminal Lucidity cases.

Adherents of this worldview are not consistent in believing reality is only made up of physical things. For example, they accept as fact, many non-physical things that are not made of matter or energy such as math, information, language, laws of physics, morality, truth, codes, probability etc.

Likewise, the Watchtower has adopted an inconsistent materialistic worldview when it comes to the nature of man.

In this lesson, we will look at the biblical definition of man and how he is constituted. Then, in the next lesson we will consider the Watchtower’s so-called “proof scriptures” to support their naturalistic/materialistic view of man. This study is especially important because it is the key to un-locking several other key doctrines of Christianity.

1 Thess. 5: 23 …I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ…

Hebrews 4: 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow [body], and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Now, for a brief grammar lesson:

Personal Pronoun: A personal pronoun is a short word we use as a simple substitute for the proper name of a person. It denotes personhood. Each of the English personal pronouns shows us the grammatical person, gender, number, and case of the noun it replaces. I, you, he, she, it, we they, me, him, her, us, and them are all personal pronouns.

Carnal Man 1 Cor. 3: 3 - ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions

Natural Man 1 Cor. 2:14 - the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them…

Spiritual Man Acts. 7: 59 - And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Obviously, Stephen wanted to be with Jesus.

2 Cor. 4: 16 - …we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Luke 24: 39 - Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Dead Souls in Heaven think, remember, speak & feel emotion:

Revelation 6: 9-11 - I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Can you see how dead souls are really persons in the bible DJW?

Phillipians 1: 21-25 - For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. - …if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 13 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

Luke 1: 45-48 - And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord. And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

So did Mary's life force rejoice or her inner person rejoice. Electricity doesn't rejoice.

Without the understanding that God assigns personhood to our spirit, soul & body – both individually and/or collectively, it is impossible to reconcile some seeming scriptural contradictions:

1. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. – 1 John 1: 8 2.

2. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. - 1 John 3: 9

So which is it? Its both because we are a tri-partite being and each of our components denotes personhood. In the above verse, 1 John 1: 82 is speaking about our flesh, and 1 John 3: 9 is speaking about our renewed spirit after getting saved.

Other long-time arguments on the deity of Christ become moot with this understanding as well. It explains how Jesus could say things like, “all power has been given me in heaven and earth”, and then elsewhere declare that “the Father is greater than I”.

The reason is because one statement of truth is spoken from a standpoint of possessing the essence of God as his spirit, and the other point of view is from the standpoint of flesh as the son of Mary.

Perhaps there is no stronger example of this as when Jesus was announcing that no one was taking his life from him and that it would be he who gave it up and ALSO he who would raise it up again: “I lay down my life, that I might take it again…I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again” – John 10: 17-18

“I” is used in reference to both the body and the spirit of Jesus here. As a side note: Did you notice how we just solved the dispute over the deity of Christ without even discussing “the deity of Christ? The Watchtower likes to pick and choose which areas of reality are materialistic, and which areas of reality are spiritual. This is how they deceive.

Christians believe that the bible has the final say on doctrine and belief. All [NOT JUST SOME] scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine…That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”